This is a quote from John Calvin in his book Bondage and Liberation of the Will.
I want to know what you think about it. Is this a true statement? Is he a little bit off? Are you Arminian and agree or Calvinist and disagree?
“…we allow that man has choice and that it is self-determined, so that if he does anything evil, it should be imputed to him and to his own voluntary choosing. We do away with coercion and force, because this contradicts the nature of the will and cannot coexist with it. We deny that choice is free, because through man’s innate wickedness it is of necessity driven to what is evil and cannot seek anything but evil. And from this it is possible to deduce what a great difference there is between necessity and coercion. For we do not say that man is dragged unwillingly into sinning, but that because his will is corrupt he is held captive under the yoke of sin and therefore of necessity will in an evil way. For where there is bondage, there is necessity. But it makes a great difference whether the bondage is voluntary or coerced. We locate the necessity to sin precisely in corruption of the will, from which follows that it is self-determined.”
John Calvin from Bondage and Liberation of the Will, pg. 69-70
This is Eric taking a stab at responding….
“…we allow that man has choice and that it is self-determined, so that if he does anything evil, it should be imputed to him and to his own voluntary choosing.”
“We deny that choice is free, because through man’s innate wickedness it is of necessity driven to what is evil and cannot seek anything but evil.”
Quick Note:
There seems to be a contradiction here. How can choice not be free, but self-determined? Maybe I am missing something.
Response:
I agree with this quote to an extent. The problem is that I know where this is leading. Eventually, Calvin will make the argument for irresistable grace using this above quote as a foundation. I buy into totaly depravity. What I do not buy into is irresistable grace.
“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God…”
Salvation is a gift from God by grace through faith. Faith is not the gift. Grace for salvation has been offered and we much accept it through faith/believing. I also stuggle with the “whosoever” passages in scripture and the doctrine of irresistable grace. I.E…
“Whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Romans 10:13.
If irresistable grace than why a “call” for our action in order to be saved. Salvation is not automatic. There is nothing that I have done to merit God’s favor nor his salvation. However, by His grace, God offers His salvation to us if we accept by faith (call on the name of the Lord).
I am rambling, I know. This may not even be what the kind of response you are looking for. I also realize that I am not really good at communicating via blog response.
Love you brother!
Eric
Interesting quote from Calvin. For the record, I am Calvinistic.
I think we must refer to Scripture for our answer. We certainly have a will to choose and make decisions. But the problem we face is that we will always choose according to our nature which is corrupted by sin. Romans 3 makes it pretty clear, None seeks for God.
Simply put, apart from a supernatural work of the Holy Spirit, you will never come to God (which is part of the Holy Spirits job by the way). Jesus said no one “can” come unless it is granted him by my Father…..and it is written twice, which in Hebrew literature expresses an important point anytime it is written twice. Think Jesus understood this Hebrew culture? I promise, He did. Anyway, the word “can” clearly speaks to ability.
On irresistable grace: Take a look at Matthew. A tax collector consider one of the most hated people in that time…..note when Jesus said “Follow me”…..he didn’t question or hesitate…..he followed in an instant. Need I mention the others? How about Paul? Was it irresistable for him?
The fact is, we as members of Adams race are corrupt. We live in a culture today that doesnt want to admit that we are slaves to anything. We are so self centered; to accept that we are a slave to sin (or anything for that matter) is so diametrically opposed to everything that is crammed into our brain from birth, that even when we are saved by grace, we still want to hold onto that we played some part in God’s saving grace. This is stealing a portion of God’s glory…..and I simply cannot do so. By grace I have been saved, and this is not of my own doing, so that I may not boast. This part (Ephesians 2:9) is what Eric left out in his scripture quote. (context, context, context) My “choice” to follow God….is boasting in “my work” that “I” did something.
If anyone would come after Me, let him deny himself, take up his cross and follow Me. Boy do we ever have trouble denying ourselves.
In addition: Scripture says in the text that follows:
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
We are His workmanship, not our will’s. Note “created”…..can we create salvation? Adam and Eve tried to “create” a cover for their sin with leaves……But God had to cover their sin….see Genesis.
I could go on and on. But the truth is in the Word. The Spirit must take away the scales from your eyes not me. I choose (:-O) to accept that God re-created me in Christ and I was not born of my own will or of my own flesh, but of God (John 1:12,13).
You must admit Scripture makes it clear. You are either a slave to sin or a slave to God. Free will is ridiculous if you believe the Bible.
Rom 6:17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed,
Rom 6:18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.
Rom 6:19 I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
Rom 6:20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
Rom 6:21 But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.
Rom 6:22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Lastly, Eric, my brother, you say:
“If irresistable grace than why a “call” for our action in order to be saved. Salvation is not automatic. There is nothing that I have done to merit God’s favor nor his salvation. However, by His grace, God offers His salvation to us if we accept by faith (call on the name of the Lord).”
Why a call? Because this is the means that God uses. How will they know unless we preach? (see Romans 10:14) But more importantly, because this is the means, since we love God, we preach in obediance. But the inward call from tHe Holy Spirit must come!
Your last statement “if we accept it”…..you are putting a condition on salvation which requires a response from God….”if we believe” then God must do something…..that makes Him reactionary. This is not a characteristic of the God if the Bible.
Peace and Blessings.